I'm frustrated. Angry. Bottled. I feel like an explosion about to happen.
It started to build up in me four years ago when I went to do a Discipleship Training School in Constanta, Romania. I learned a lot of things the first three months of school. But what I learned the most those first three months were nothing to prepare me for what i was going to start to experience.
Being in Romania I saw a lot of Orthodox churches. I remember the first time i went into one I saw different stations, idols, that people were bowing before, kissing, and praying to. From the very first glance i had already made up my mind that what "they" were doing was "wrong." My thoughts were, "they are all worshiping idols and that's a sin". I took some photos of what i saw, and then, left the building. The rest of my time there in Romania, i attended a "Pentecostal" type church. I wasn't to involved but in my mind i thought, "this is what church should look like; freedom to worship, freedom to speak louder then just a whisper, no idolatry, this is more like it"
After the first three months I went on "outreach" to Yerevan, Armenia. Me and the three others on my team spent about ten weeks in the capital city before heading back to Romania. The main religion there is Christianity. Practicly, every Armenian I met proudly told me that Armenia is the first Christian Nation and they were Christianised by Thaddeus and Bartholomew in 301 a.d. The main church there is the Apostolic Orthodox church. This in many ways is similar to the Orthodox church in Romania.
The first Sunday we were there we went to a liturgy service about an hour outside of the city. The church was in a Rural village that over looked what reminded me of a mini grand canyon. It was one of the most beautiful places i had been. There were pastures that stretched on both sides of the cliff. The Church was a rounded stone building that was drenched in frankincense. When we went into the Church my friend Hasmik, who was our translator, silently narrated to me about everything that was going on. .."now here is where the priest goes behind the curtain and the holy spirit comes on him and here he is bringing out the Bible so that everyone can kiss it and receive a blessing....now here he is doing the same thing with the cross." I couldn't believe what i was seeing. I felt such an overwhelming sense that what they were doing was "wrong! it was religious!" I kept looking behind me to see if there was a way out but the building was so crowded that there was no way to get out of the church ( it was almost like God wanted me to stay).
Finally, the service was over and we all went out side. I sat out on the grass and started to cry. I was so sad. I asked God, "How can this be? How can there be such idolatry in the church? Surely, i was convinced that God had no part of these people!" The Holy spirit spoke to me and i heard him say, "No! I am here! This is my church, these are my people. Don't you dare judge." I was humbled at what i felt God had just spoke to me. It was like the pride was slowly breaking off of me.
After our time in Armenia was up we went back to Romania to finish our school. Right after the school i flew from Romania to Rome. I was meeting up with two friends from Oregon. While we were there I had this building desire to to go to mass. Well, we decided that we wanted to go to St.Peters (the Vatican) but the church was completely full of people. So instead we decided that we would take the Metro out to St. Paul's. We stayed for the liturgy. As I was sitting there I couldn't understand anything the priest was saying because it was all in Latin. It gave me a lot of time to think. On the ceiling, over the alter, there was this huge painting of Christ. The painting was worn and there were cracks all in it. And for the second time, I started to cry. I felt the holy spirit so prevalent. In the midst of all this the lord spoke to me. The Latin drowned out from the audible voice i heard..., "this is my body. broken." I could feel the dispare of Gods heart. The aching, and the longing that was in Him. While Jesus was on earth his prayer was "Father, that they might become one!"
And look at us now! There's "this" denomination and "that" denomination. And "This is the "right" Denomination and "That" is the "wrong" Denomination! The body is broken! We've allowed our legalistic thoughts to rule us and we have lost sight of what the second commandment was, "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF". If we did all things in love then maybe we could really live as the body of Christ rather then a "Christian who is a part of this denomination or that!"
I have been thinking about the whole journey or evolution if you will, of the church and examining where it began to where it is now ,and i am frustrated! If you think about it, Jesus was fully gifted. In Corinthians there is an chapter about what the " body" of Christ should look like....it says some are gifted as pastors, some as evangelist, others as profits and so on. Jesus was ALL these things. He was pastor to the non Christians. Jesus ate with sinners. He fellowship ed with them. (The Pharisees looked down on him for doing this!) He was the evangelist. He ministered to the woman at the wale (the prostitute).( In those days it was viewed as wrong to talk to a woman in public, most of all a prostitute). Jesus was the prophet. He encouraged others.
How did we get the "position" of Pastor? Where did that come from? Is not a Pastor some one whose heart is to care for others? To minister to the person who is in need? And since when did Jesus need a "certificate, to prove that he could be a pastor? Or when did we decide to "vote" him in to CE O? And the Evangelist? Since when is the Evangelist someone who stands on the street corner preaching heaven and hell? Is not the evangelist someone who has a heart to tell the good news in love. And the Prophet? what does that really mean? My point is are not all these gifts that we are given for the edification of building the body of Christ? These are not CE Os! They are not Positions! They are gifts!
Three Sundays ago our home fellowship talked about these gifts and what they really are. My friend Alycia asked the question, "how do you know what your gift is?" So we spent the whole morning talking about what we thought each persons gift was......
.....I was encouraged to hear the things that were shared. I was told that I had the pastoral gifting, and an Evangelist gifting. Now when i first hear this I cringed!!!!!! Evangelist!!!!!! Pastor!!!!!!! I don't want to be these things. But as we continued to discuss these things, I found that the reason I dont' like the "title" of being an 'evangelist or pastor' is because, my whole "world view" was wrong. We found that each person had many gifts! I concluded that as a church we DON'T need a CEO PASTOR, that's not what it should look like.( and please understand me, I'm not trying to talk bad about churches that have pastors. I grew up in a great church with a great pastor). But if we look at Jesus' life, His main occupation was "carpenter" It wasn't until Jesus last 3 years of his life that he started his "ministry". Jesus was never paid to be a pastor... he simply WAS a pastor because he cared for others.
I don't know. I hope this is all coming out non offencive. I just needed a place to let it out! And these are just my ideas and what i have made sense out of them.
If I may go on......
From what Ive seen here in the U.S. and over seas, the church is vast and diverse. People meet for fellowship in Buildings,in houses, and underground. When I go over seas I'm scared that i will influence people in the wrong way. Like maybe ill take "my way" of doing church and influence the Europeans to doing it my way! This is what I have seen done. I went to Armenia and they as a culture are sooooo rich in Orthodox.....and then I see a " Pentecostal church" made up of 5000 members who are telling the orthodox church that "they" are wrong. I could just imagine how that "Pentecostal" church got started there....a westerner went over there on a missionary trip and set up the church to look EXACTLY like a church here in the states! He probably didn't even consider "their" culter,or "their rich history"......
...This makes me sick to my stomach. I'm sick of discord. My prayer is that "we may become ONE as HE is one. I think U2 sang it the best. He is singing about his Experience in the church.... " you ask me to enter( singing about the church) but then you make me crawl.....and i cant be holding on to what you've got when all you've got is hurt...."
Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame
You say
One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night
One love
We get to share it
Leaves you baby if you
Don't care for it
Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without
Well it's
Too late
Tonight
To drag the past out into the light
We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One
Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus?
To the lepers in your head
Did I ask too much?
[One lyrics on http://www.metrolyrics.com]
More than a lot.
You gave me nothing,
Now it's all I got
We're one
But we're not the same
Well we
Hurt each other
Then we do it again
You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law
You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt
One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One
One
i welcome your thoughts. if you read all of this then i hope it challenges you to think more about what it really means to be the church and what that looks like.
With all this said I do recognize that the church is changing... good things are happening in the church....i hear of legalisim slowly breaking off the structure in certain churches. this is encouraging to me.
OK ill shut up now :)
thanks for letting me share.
It started to build up in me four years ago when I went to do a Discipleship Training School in Constanta, Romania. I learned a lot of things the first three months of school. But what I learned the most those first three months were nothing to prepare me for what i was going to start to experience.
Being in Romania I saw a lot of Orthodox churches. I remember the first time i went into one I saw different stations, idols, that people were bowing before, kissing, and praying to. From the very first glance i had already made up my mind that what "they" were doing was "wrong." My thoughts were, "they are all worshiping idols and that's a sin". I took some photos of what i saw, and then, left the building. The rest of my time there in Romania, i attended a "Pentecostal" type church. I wasn't to involved but in my mind i thought, "this is what church should look like; freedom to worship, freedom to speak louder then just a whisper, no idolatry, this is more like it"
After the first three months I went on "outreach" to Yerevan, Armenia. Me and the three others on my team spent about ten weeks in the capital city before heading back to Romania. The main religion there is Christianity. Practicly, every Armenian I met proudly told me that Armenia is the first Christian Nation and they were Christianised by Thaddeus and Bartholomew in 301 a.d. The main church there is the Apostolic Orthodox church. This in many ways is similar to the Orthodox church in Romania.
The first Sunday we were there we went to a liturgy service about an hour outside of the city. The church was in a Rural village that over looked what reminded me of a mini grand canyon. It was one of the most beautiful places i had been. There were pastures that stretched on both sides of the cliff. The Church was a rounded stone building that was drenched in frankincense. When we went into the Church my friend Hasmik, who was our translator, silently narrated to me about everything that was going on. .."now here is where the priest goes behind the curtain and the holy spirit comes on him and here he is bringing out the Bible so that everyone can kiss it and receive a blessing....now here he is doing the same thing with the cross." I couldn't believe what i was seeing. I felt such an overwhelming sense that what they were doing was "wrong! it was religious!" I kept looking behind me to see if there was a way out but the building was so crowded that there was no way to get out of the church ( it was almost like God wanted me to stay).
Finally, the service was over and we all went out side. I sat out on the grass and started to cry. I was so sad. I asked God, "How can this be? How can there be such idolatry in the church? Surely, i was convinced that God had no part of these people!" The Holy spirit spoke to me and i heard him say, "No! I am here! This is my church, these are my people. Don't you dare judge." I was humbled at what i felt God had just spoke to me. It was like the pride was slowly breaking off of me.
After our time in Armenia was up we went back to Romania to finish our school. Right after the school i flew from Romania to Rome. I was meeting up with two friends from Oregon. While we were there I had this building desire to to go to mass. Well, we decided that we wanted to go to St.Peters (the Vatican) but the church was completely full of people. So instead we decided that we would take the Metro out to St. Paul's. We stayed for the liturgy. As I was sitting there I couldn't understand anything the priest was saying because it was all in Latin. It gave me a lot of time to think. On the ceiling, over the alter, there was this huge painting of Christ. The painting was worn and there were cracks all in it. And for the second time, I started to cry. I felt the holy spirit so prevalent. In the midst of all this the lord spoke to me. The Latin drowned out from the audible voice i heard..., "this is my body. broken." I could feel the dispare of Gods heart. The aching, and the longing that was in Him. While Jesus was on earth his prayer was "Father, that they might become one!"
And look at us now! There's "this" denomination and "that" denomination. And "This is the "right" Denomination and "That" is the "wrong" Denomination! The body is broken! We've allowed our legalistic thoughts to rule us and we have lost sight of what the second commandment was, "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF". If we did all things in love then maybe we could really live as the body of Christ rather then a "Christian who is a part of this denomination or that!"
I have been thinking about the whole journey or evolution if you will, of the church and examining where it began to where it is now ,and i am frustrated! If you think about it, Jesus was fully gifted. In Corinthians there is an chapter about what the " body" of Christ should look like....it says some are gifted as pastors, some as evangelist, others as profits and so on. Jesus was ALL these things. He was pastor to the non Christians. Jesus ate with sinners. He fellowship ed with them. (The Pharisees looked down on him for doing this!) He was the evangelist. He ministered to the woman at the wale (the prostitute).( In those days it was viewed as wrong to talk to a woman in public, most of all a prostitute). Jesus was the prophet. He encouraged others.
How did we get the "position" of Pastor? Where did that come from? Is not a Pastor some one whose heart is to care for others? To minister to the person who is in need? And since when did Jesus need a "certificate, to prove that he could be a pastor? Or when did we decide to "vote" him in to CE O? And the Evangelist? Since when is the Evangelist someone who stands on the street corner preaching heaven and hell? Is not the evangelist someone who has a heart to tell the good news in love. And the Prophet? what does that really mean? My point is are not all these gifts that we are given for the edification of building the body of Christ? These are not CE Os! They are not Positions! They are gifts!
Three Sundays ago our home fellowship talked about these gifts and what they really are. My friend Alycia asked the question, "how do you know what your gift is?" So we spent the whole morning talking about what we thought each persons gift was......
.....I was encouraged to hear the things that were shared. I was told that I had the pastoral gifting, and an Evangelist gifting. Now when i first hear this I cringed!!!!!! Evangelist!!!!!! Pastor!!!!!!! I don't want to be these things. But as we continued to discuss these things, I found that the reason I dont' like the "title" of being an 'evangelist or pastor' is because, my whole "world view" was wrong. We found that each person had many gifts! I concluded that as a church we DON'T need a CEO PASTOR, that's not what it should look like.( and please understand me, I'm not trying to talk bad about churches that have pastors. I grew up in a great church with a great pastor). But if we look at Jesus' life, His main occupation was "carpenter" It wasn't until Jesus last 3 years of his life that he started his "ministry". Jesus was never paid to be a pastor... he simply WAS a pastor because he cared for others.
I don't know. I hope this is all coming out non offencive. I just needed a place to let it out! And these are just my ideas and what i have made sense out of them.
If I may go on......
From what Ive seen here in the U.S. and over seas, the church is vast and diverse. People meet for fellowship in Buildings,in houses, and underground. When I go over seas I'm scared that i will influence people in the wrong way. Like maybe ill take "my way" of doing church and influence the Europeans to doing it my way! This is what I have seen done. I went to Armenia and they as a culture are sooooo rich in Orthodox.....and then I see a " Pentecostal church" made up of 5000 members who are telling the orthodox church that "they" are wrong. I could just imagine how that "Pentecostal" church got started there....a westerner went over there on a missionary trip and set up the church to look EXACTLY like a church here in the states! He probably didn't even consider "their" culter,or "their rich history"......
...This makes me sick to my stomach. I'm sick of discord. My prayer is that "we may become ONE as HE is one. I think U2 sang it the best. He is singing about his Experience in the church.... " you ask me to enter( singing about the church) but then you make me crawl.....and i cant be holding on to what you've got when all you've got is hurt...."
Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame
You say
One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night
One love
We get to share it
Leaves you baby if you
Don't care for it
Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without
Well it's
Too late
Tonight
To drag the past out into the light
We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One
Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus?
To the lepers in your head
Did I ask too much?
[One lyrics on http://www.metrolyrics.com]
More than a lot.
You gave me nothing,
Now it's all I got
We're one
But we're not the same
Well we
Hurt each other
Then we do it again
You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law
You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt
One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One
One
i welcome your thoughts. if you read all of this then i hope it challenges you to think more about what it really means to be the church and what that looks like.
With all this said I do recognize that the church is changing... good things are happening in the church....i hear of legalisim slowly breaking off the structure in certain churches. this is encouraging to me.
OK ill shut up now :)
thanks for letting me share.
posted by Unknown at 7:57 PM
3 Comments:
This is an excerpt from a CBN blogger named Martha Noebel,
"To be set apart means that God has His hand on you for a specific purpose. He'll use other people to get you on track -- in addition to dreams, visions, and that "still small voice" of God. A scripture that would fit nicely with this is Jeremiah 29:11, "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end." "
I know this much for sure, we are set apart for His calling and His purposes. We are to be His hands and feet here on earth. The church in today's times and in this American society is rather fragmented, but that has more to do with the allowance of politics which has no place in His kingdom.
God is at work and as long as we trust Him for our strength, we are certain to regain our Ecclesia, which is the Greek word for church and roughly translates "Body of Christ".
Have faith sis.
D
Wow..quite a lot of thoughts here. Good stuff, though. Our home group has been talking the same way. Isn't is great that God doesn't mind us questioning? BTW, thanks for always reading my blog.
Julie I was reading ... thanks for shearing... and have to say that i was angry an this things also... for me it is still hard to live in the middle of everything... but you know i came to understand that “in the middle” that’s where i find everything... i just gave it to God... he will sort out everything someday... cause we are His...
Lilie
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